Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Amsoil Air Filter


Roy

Recommended Posts

Gang, I might be able to have 50 Amsoil foam air filters made for the Kohler OHC-18 v-twin in the new Sovereigns. Is there any interest in this? If so, let me know. A foam air filter would go a long way toward solving the need to clean the air filter every time the tractor is used. Amsoil seems more interested in making a filter than K & N. Maybe some of our dealer members would be interested in stocking and selling a few. Thanks,
Link to comment
Share on other sites

roy i have a 2k sovereign, but have never heard of the brand of filter you mension. I assume that it is some kind of high efficiency unit? What are its benefits? and if you can have it "made" could i use it and not void my warranty? I would be interested if i hade some more info and they were not priced too high. ps will it be good for 3 or more mph gain in speed ? :D thanks john b
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roy, As we discussed before, due to the Sovereign's design I also have to clean my filter after every use (sometimes during use). No matter how good a filter may be at filtering, how would that extend cleaning intervals?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

amsoil is a good filter,i am spending the money for one for my diesel truck.You reuse the element,cleaning it and then use the recharge additive that comes with it have so many hrs of use.I can get one shipped to my house for my truck to my door step for $50.00 or a little more.How much for our tractors,Roy? I will be interested in one if priced reasonible. Agco918
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I take it the Amsoil filters are based on the principal of K&N airfilters? You wash them and re-use them? If so, I believe that would be much better than the original ones. Figure it this was for the people who don't get it: better filtration = longer motor life cleanable/re-usable = cheaper in the long run. If the lawnmower filter gets dirty that quick, I would think a re-usable element would be well worth it. Anyone considered a revised intake? -BradW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gang, Amsoil foam filters are basically a porous oiled foam that creates a "depth media". A depth media will not clog/blind over as quick as a single layer paper filter. Similar to a K & N they will function efficiently despite a layer of dust & dirt so they do not need to be cleaned as often as a paper filter. You can also "brush" the outer layer of crud from the filter to extend the cleaning interval. Since they make filter for a variety of small engines & outdoor products I assume an Amsoil filter would not void the warranty. Al Eden might be able to shed some light on this. You can check out Amsoil filters at "www.amsoil.com". Do not know what cost would be. I inquired about OHC-18/Simplicity air filters. Their response was that they will do limited production runs but the minimum quantity was 50. With enough interest I was thinking about ordering 50. Keep the feedback coming.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roy, the only thing I can think that might hurt with that type of filter is running a lean condition. On a dirtbike you always have to take the main jet up 1-5 sizes just for a K&N in a factory airbox. These new mowers have un-adjustable main jets and I don't know if it would effect it or not. I sure wouldn't want someone to ruin their nice Soverign and find out the hard way! -BradW
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My pre-starting procedure includes checking the oil level, removing the air cleaner cover, vacuuming around the air cleaner area, removing the pre-cleaner and replacing with a another spare clean and oiled pre-cleaner. Kohler recommends changing the air filter every 100 hours. I choose to replace the air cleaner once a year in the fall after mowing and tilling when I install the snowblower. A Kohler air cleaner, part #2808303S is $8.80 and a pre-cleaner, part # 2808302S is $1.76. A pre-cleaner will last for years. An air cleaner of the same size made out of a different material may save me $8.80 a year but is not going to solve the problem. If fact an air cleaner of a different material may end up costing more money in the long run if it allows more dirt particles to enter the engine.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BillC, My problem is that I am lazy. Your procedure may work for you but it seems like a lot of hassel to me. I prefer to jump on, crank it up, and go like I do on my B-1 with the foam filter. I am also dissatisfied with the Kohler foam precleaner. It it too narrow and does not seal good which allows a lot of bypass dirt to reach the paper filter. An Amsoil filter may not be economically justifiable but it sure would be more convient. Thanks to all, Roy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roy, I too need to clean my regent filter at the beginning almost every time because the foam fits loose on mine too, it likes to rip too. Maybe if you got that Amsoil, you could get some sort of deal like K&N's pre-filter. I know they keep alot of junk out, plus from a top end company like them, it could actually fit. -BradW P.S. the easiest one I maintained was the oil bath filter on my 7008)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, This air cleaner issue is bigger than initially meets the eye. The person I deal with at the Kohler factory and I were talking about repowers Friday. We were discussing real estate problems related to a specific repower application he had asked me about. This particular application, a K series in another color seems to be relegated to short blocks. I can find no other option. We then got to the muffler problems. .He said he gets a number of calls regarding the use of different air cleaners and mufflers. If you notice when you look in the Kohler accessories catalog there are numerous air cleaners and mufflers and related EPA statements. As an example the 12 786 05-s peperpot muffler kit can not be used on any engine that requires EPA certification at time of manufacture. Being involved in the repower business we have to be aware of what we can and can’t do. When these new EPA engines are made they have to be EPA certified to meet emission specs and do so for a specified number of hours. Any change to the intake or exhaust system changes the emissions. Changing the air cleaner requires the re-certification of the engine. This is an expensive process. Using a muffler that has not been emissions tested requires that the engine mfr verify that it still meets EPA requirements. In doing the repower kits, we are treated as an OEM. If we use a muffler that has not been EPA tested on the engine we use it on, we have to have it tested. For example if we use a muffler from a CH20 approved for some mfrs application and we put it on a CH22 or CH25 and it hasn’t been tested we have to have it done. The muffler certification is much cheaper than air cleaner certification. A rep for Kohler will come in and do some back-pressure and other tests to ascertain that we may use it. We can be fined 10,000.00 per unit we sell, if we screw up the EPA emissions of these engines by ignoring requirements. This is one of the reasons that we work very closely with the factory. Kohler has bent over backwards to work with us, some other manufacturers are less helpful. If we substitute a different air cleaner, we have to submit it to Kohler and have the engine re-certified with the new air cleaner. Some of these issues, maybe we could just play dumb and not worry about it, but I don’t have the money to run the risk and ignorance is not an acceptable excuse in prosecuting these issues. My contact says he gets a number of calls about alternate air cleaners from OEM manufacturers, and when it comes time to pay to have them certified, they decide they will use what is certified. Keep in mind that emissions are the reason the K series, KT and Magnums are essentially NLA. Something that is coming is fuel tanks. California now has some new tight specs on how much vapor can migrate through the walls of a plastic fuel tanks. One engine mfr brought this up in Service school and said that engines without a specific tank code cannot be sold with tanks in California. If it is there now, how long before it is all over? Whether we like it or not, we have it. We have modified the air cleaner cover on a couple of TH18 Sovereigns we have close reign on, as a research project. We have taken the cover and on the PTO end have cut 2 large semicircles in the end. When it is done the PTO end looks like a B with the flat side down. This does not change the filter characteristics or air flow through the filter element. It only opens the end up so the chaff can blow out the end of the cover instead of being boxed in. My night mech. went from 4 filters a year in his Sovereign to 1. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING ANYONE DO THIS!!!!! I have shared this information with Kohler. Personally I would not sell this new NOS air cleaner in our business unless it was EPA certified by Kohler. I don’t know where it would fit in the EPA issue. It seems that some versions and brands of engines make the specs easier than others, and may not be as, or may be more sensitive to change than others. It is sad, but the days of small things going to market in this day and age require a lot of research in a lot of areas. Look at all of the toys that are made and sold and the mfrs and dist. Have to recall off the market because a button is too small etc. If you are small, one needs to figure out where the money comes from to do this or be as certain as you can it can’t happen. Scary. I am not wanting to be a doomsayer, but we are finding that in the repower business, about 20 % of our time goes to getting a prototype to work and meet requirements and about 80% goes to all of the necessary documentation and paperwork. My 2 cents worth and its free, value accordingly, Al Eden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Al, I understand where you are coming from and why. My question is, how do Amsoil and K & N successfully make and sell their air filters for small engines and outdoor equipment? Are they risking the wrath of the EPA and lawyers? Have they done the testing and obtained certification from the engine manufacturers and the EPA? I don't know but they sell a lot of filters that offer increased performance and/or longer filter life. Sometimes one has to take risks in order to move forward. My thoughts,
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roy, I really don't know. I know, if an OEM uses an engine, they must be certain that anything they add or change including mufflers in their applications and installations do not invalidate the Engine manufacturers EPA tests. This is a very confusing situation. For example if a chain saw comes into a shop with the carb limiter caps removed from the adjustment screws, the shop must reinstall them or be vulnerable to a 10,000. fine. The reality is there is no EPA policeman coming in and checking shops. However in one of our trade magazines about 2 months ago several shops were checked by EPA reps to see that all of the trimmers on their shelves had the correct EPA approval labels on them. Same fine. All were OK in these stores. There are trimmers that don't pass EPA specs. and they must be sold outside the US and can't be imported. There is somewhat of a "gray" market in these items and the EPA is doing some checking for compliance in some areas of the country. Regarding the caps, it seems like it is not an issue of the individual removing caps, but shops are mandated not to let them out because they are EPA mandated. I suspect that it is somewhat like the catalytic convertor replacement pipes. They are subject to the 10,000. rule for removing the converter on cars. The pipes are sold with a warning: Sold for test purposes only to determine if converter is plugged. Not to be used for replacement. You know how it goes. I don't know all about this. I know I try to live inside the rules as I am aware of them and try to know what I have to do to do so. Even though personally I question some of the wisdom. Next time I talk to Kohler I will try to get an answer about the air cleaners. I suspect that automotive applications etc may not be as sensitive to air cleaner changes etc because the computers compensate. The air cooled industry is meeting specs that 4 years ago the engine companies said couldn't be achieved. I suspect that there is not a lot of margin in meeting the specs. I personallly believe the 2005 and beyond rules will still bring cat converters and computer controls for small engines to survive. My 2 cents worth and its free value accordiingly. Good luck, Al Eden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:
Originally posted by Al
This is a very confusing situation.
Not really. The small businessman is viewed as a vulnerable cash cow. Hit him with a $50,000 fine for having 5 "deadly" trimmers. Reduce it to $10,000 after "negoiating" with his lawyer, and BINGO the government and lawyer are richer, the businessman is relieved.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...