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mbrook

Spittin and Sputterin revisited

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mbrook
Previous post I decscribed my problem, and the fact that it does not have spark anymore. Again what I have is a 7013S with a B&S 13hp. Here are some of the things I have tried: - replaced battery - new spark plug - I also tried to get a spark from jumping the plug wire to the head - new condenser - cleaned points (looked new) - checked for lose or frayed wires Here is what is happening: - engine turns over fine (thanks to new battery) - I have good compression - Carb semms to work fine - No spark at all My questions are: - Is there a way to test the plug wire itself? - Can I test my points/condenser to confirm they are working? - Could it be a problem with the turn key/ignition key? I know this is process of elimination but I have almost eliminated everything. I'm assuming that my next choice is to replace the armetur. If you have any suggestions I would appriciate it. Thanks Again, Mark

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johnmonkey
Recently I was testing the spark on a kohler 10hp (I pulled out the spark plug and grounded it to see if I could see spark) I could not see the spark so I started testing other stuff. I finally gave up replaced the spark plug and shot a little starter fluid in the carb and turnerd her over and...POW! she fired right up. Bottom line ...I couldn't see the spark but it was there all along. I don't know if this will help but it worked for me. Good luck JH

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stinkie
Mark, You can check the wire for resistance to ensure it isnt broken, but if it is jumping fire (holes in the insulation cause the current to ground out on something else) or something it is hard to pinpoint. As for the points and condenser, you can check the condenser with a meter. Check the gap on your points and make sure it is good (.020 or so). I would suggest (if you arent getting visible fire) holding the end of the spark plug wire in your hand when you crank it over and see if you get shocked weakly. It wont hurt too bad, and it will let you know if you are getting any fire at all. Have you cleaned the flywheel magnets and the coil off yet? That might help. If it's a problem with the ignition key, its more than likely ground out. check for continuity between the ground wire (to the ignition switch) and the frame. If all this fails, you probably need a new coil, which is the worst thing it could be.......... Stinkster

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arjr111
Could it be a problem with the turn key/ignition key? Yes, the ignition harness, switch and connectors, is one of the places you need to check for crossed/fused wires, broken or loose connections, etc. It is one of the most common places the wires will come together and ground.

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srwven
I agree with Stinkie. This sounds like the exact same problem I was having with my 7014S. I rebuilt the carb, replaced points, plug, and condensor and the problem didn't go away. I could sometimes get a spark but it just wouldn't start or run. I pulled the engine and replaced the armature to find one of the wires on the old armature was broken off, although not visibly. Replaced it, and it has been running great ever since.

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mbrook
Stinkie, I took your advice to see if I had spark (I don't have an OHM meter)so I stuck a screw driver in the end of the plug wire, grabbed on to the bare metal and cranked the engine. I was very surprised when I did get shocked. My wife thought I was crazy, as usual. So this raises some more questions: - What would cause a weak spark/no spark - It does not seem to be strong enough to jump any gap - I do get a mild poke when holding the plug wire and the start key I think this weekend I will pull the motor and check the armetur/coil. Its not what I wanted to do, but I guess the more I learn about this tractor the better off I'll be.

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stinkie
Usually, a coil either works or it doesnt. So I would say the good news is that you dont have to buy a new one. Take some sandpaper and clean your magnets, coil, and all the connections thereto. Then take the plug out and reconnect the plug wire. Lay the plug on the head so that the tab contacts one of the head bolts, turn the lights out in your garage, and crank the motor. You should see fire then. Another test would be to put a TINY squirt of ether down in the spark plug hole, quickly replace the plug, and see if it will hit. If it hits, you probably have a fuel delivery problem or bad compression rather than ignition trouble. Give it a try and we'll take it from there.... stinkster

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Bunky
You can check the coil on the tractor by hooking up a 9 volt or Battery charger Etc. pull the plug and ground it to the head, then hook the one lead tot he wire that comes from the coil to the points, just tap the other to the engine ground and it should spark... otherwise the local shop should have a coil tester....

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mbrook
Update Friday afternoon I decided to pick up a new coil/armetur ($27 not too bad) to put in my 7013s. I was hoping I could just slide the engine shroud back, I quckly find out that I had to pull the engine to replace the part. I started at about 6:30pm worked on it until 9:00pm (I was also keeping my four kids at bay). I returned to my job at hand at about 10:00pm after the kids where asleep in bed. At about 11:00pm I had finished putting it back together a was about to see if I had spark. Yahoo! I had spark from the plug wire to the head, I hooked it up to the plug and fired it up. Saturday I mowed the front and side yard and never had a problem with it. Hopefully this fixed my original problem of "spitten and sputterin". Thank you all for your advice and encouragement. And thanks to all that make this the best tractor site around.

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mbrook
Its back[V] This past weekend my wife was mowing the back yard and it did it again, started to run rough and stalled out. Since then I have been able to get it to start but I have a hard time increasing the throttle. Again its seems as if I have weak spark. I plan on taking it to my cousin's shop today at lunch. I'll test it with OHM and I'll do a compression check. I really hope I can get this problem solved soon. My wife said its time to get rid of these junk mowers and maybe look at something green (her dad is a jd guy).

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Dutch
quote:
Originally posted by mbrook
My wife said its time to get rid of these junk mowers and maybe look at something green (her dad is a jd guy).
Better keep the wife happy............. Plus, her dad will probably help out if you owned a JD. I'm always amazed when I hear some people claim that an engine in a brand "A" tractor is junk, but the same exact engine in a brand "B" tractor is great.

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mbrook
Before this gets out of hand, let me say this in my wifes favor. I picked up this tractor relativly inexspensive, now that its not running its "junk". A point of view from my wife, if it ran fine I would be a great buy. I'm not saying its "junk" and I'd rather have a freindly competition with my Father-in-law (green vs orange). But at this point a non running tractor does not do me a bit of good, its taking time, money and space in my garage. I have almost invested in parts the amount I paid for it. If I can't get this thing working properly soon, I don't know what might happen.

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Dutch
quote:
Originally posted by mbrook
Before this gets out of hand, let me say this in my wifes favor.
Don't read more into my response than what I stated. I've got the same problem in reverse. My wife likes her 15 year old car, but can't understand why I can't fix it so it never breaks. The latest is the review mirror fell off the windshield (that's my fault?). When I reminded her the same thing happened when the car was brand new, she shut up. I want her to buy a new car. But, she doesn't want to spend $40,000 on a car she doesn't like, but questions every dollar I spend keeping her old "junker" (my opinion) running. Why do machines need batteries, tires, brakes, oil changes, tune ups? They even need major repairs once in a while........ shocking.

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Dutch
quote:
Originally posted by mbrook
I have almost invested in parts the amount I paid for it.
That may not be a realistic way of looking at it. I bought a Sovereign for $100. Spent over $1,200 in parts (plus my time). But, now I have a tractor that will do the same job as a new $6,000 machine (if they were still made). What I wouldn't do is spend the same $1,200 on a lesser machine that could be replaced with a new one for $995.

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srwven
Did you clean/sand the flywheel magnets as suggested earlier? Has anyone heard of a flywheel losing some of its polarity? Someone had mentioned this to me(not getting it repolarized for electronic ignition-that is the opposite polarity).

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Spencyg
I had a weak spark on my now rebuilt 16hp CI Briggs. It would take a whole lot of cranking to start, and once it was running, it would sometimes lose power like what you are experiencing. I recently converted to a 12V automotive coil fired by teh stock points and a new condenser. It has made a world of difference and now I recomment it to anybody who is experiencing ignition trouble. I think the parts cost me around $50, but I would have paid $200 after experiencing the ease in startability and drivability. I know it means more money, but I'm quite certain it would clear up any ignition troubles. Spence

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PatRarick
Did you happen to check the flywheel key? The key can shear just slightly. Usually, with points, the key shears enough that it doesn't generate spark, but it is possible for a very slight shear to only weaken spark. Also, several years ago, I had a customer bring in a model 23D with very weak spark. After a lot of troubleshooting, I checked the continuity of the points to the ground. Nothing there. The mounting surface was rusty enough that the points were not grounding to the block. Pat

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mbrook
Stopped by my cousins shop, talked for a while, then got to work on the tractor. First thing he asked does it have spark. I reply very weak, it won't jump the plug gap.We checked the point gap, set at 0.022, seemed okay. He asked if I tried setting the tighter. I didn't, so he sets them at 0.016. It starts right up, runs fine throttles up good. Sometimes its too easy. I have a bad feeling though that this isn't the root of my problem. I can only try it and see what happens. Which if it continues to lose power I'll have an upset wife. Thanks for all the advice.

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Dudley
I had a problem with my 7013S. Pulled the plug wire off to check spark. When I held the plug wire near the plug, it would start and run, but if I put the wire back on it would die. Someone on the forum told me that was a sign of a bad plug (cracked insulator, I guess) so I replaced it and problem was solved.

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