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schaefer72

honda 24hp conversion - powermax - new pics

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schaefer72
[img]hi - well i was getting tired of my old cckb onan fouling plugs and giving me trouble - i decided not to sink the time and effort into new rings and pistons so i took the next step - i ordered a new 24hp honda v-twin motor from sew (small engine warehouse) - i talked to a number of club members as well as a number of people from sew and got various opinions on the briggs and the honda motors - i opted just to go for the honda out of personal choice - the ordering went smooth and the package took about a week to arrive - in it i found all packed into the box - the muffler - misc. nuts and bolts - what the regulator/rectifier - choke and throtle cables - and the engine with the flywheel adapter plate attached - front pto adapter plate - as well as the engine mounting plate - everthing seems to be in good shape - the only thing i have noticed of concern so far is the engine mounting plate holes are uneven and the overall construct of the engine mounting plate seems rushed and sloppy - i will see how it all fits in the next week or so - hopefully all will go well and everything will line up and bolt up as planned - as i do not have a garage or barn all work is done outside and subject to the weather - so i am hoping to get it done in the next week - i will update this as things progress - see ya [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/26.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/27.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/32.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/23.jpg[/img] ]

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[img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/28.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/29.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/30.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/31.jpg[/img] well i got out today and was able to spend most of the day working on my install - my two powermax waiting to be brought back to life - the one on the left is the one getting the new honda - my johnson workhorse loader is sitting in the middle of the two - both have rear pto and 3pt hitches - the one on the right will be for mowing and such so i dont have to remove my loader as much as possible - the other pic is of the engine mounting plate in place - everything lined up fairly well one hole was off by 1 or 2 mm but the bolt went thru with alittle help from my hammer -

i attempted to test mount the double pulley to the motor and realized my pulley had different sized bolts and holes than the flywheel adapter - i was alittle concerned that i got the wrong adapter or something - i new i had an extra pulley in the house so i decided to compare them - one has 3/8 " holes the other has 7/!6 " holes - so i grabbed the one with the 3/8" holes that matched the flywheel adapter - is this normal to have different size holes in the pulleys ? - did different models use different size bolts or it my pulley altered ? - ccka pulley vs cckb pulley ? - next i mounted the regulator/rectifier in the same spot as the old one -

next i tested the alignment of the pulleys - they were way off - about 1/4 inch - i remembered sam had to move the spacers to make things line up and so did i - moved all 5 of them up front and everything lined up perfectly -

then i bolted the pulley to the pto shaft and flywheel adapter - had to use some washers and spacers from by parts allis b-10 to make things bolt up correctly - i attached the pto adapter plate and the front pto - in the process it looked like there is supposed to be some sort of material over the wires - mine is falling apart - is it supposed to be there ? - what is it ? - should i replace it ? - anyway i just put it back together - it still works for now - what have others done about this ?

then i mounted the choke and throtle - as sam had noted the handle dosen't come off the throtle so i cut thru the base of the dash and slid it into place - i will clean it up later - got the muffler attached - engine bolted into place - gas lines hooked up - and attached the throttle and choke cables to engine - got alot done - took most of the day - i was going slow and double checking everything and attempting to get things lined up properly and not destroy anything along the way - all in all everything went o.k. - glad i had that other pulley -

more in a couple days - see ya

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UCD
Upload the pictures to this site the pictures on the yahoo site will not load here or you have the url wrong. If I put the url into my browser it comes up as a dead link. If I Shorten the url to the jpg. it says access not allowed to this users pictures is Forbidden.If I Shorten the url to the picture number 690227f0/bc/ this is the message i get. The requested URL '/22/8b/users.690227f0/bc/' is a directory, and directory accessing is disabled on this server.

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SmilinSam
I see they made your riser out of channel iron. Mine was rectangular tubing. I assume the channel irons reach out to the original holes in the tractor frame? Mine came with the muffler and clutch plate already installed.

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schaefer72
hi - well i had big hopes for today but things didnt go as planned - i finished a few last little things and i was ready to test fire the motor - i doubled checked everything from wiring to nuts and bolts to make sure nothing would be destroyed if i had missed something - something didnt seem right with the wiring hooked up to the starter but i figured sew new something i didnt - they pre wire the engine so all you have to do is plug the connecters in and go - you pay an extra $400 or so for the adapters , wires , and mufflers - so all you have to do is install - i connected the battery and turned the key - the starter solenoid clicked but the starter motor never turned over - man what a let down - i then took another look at the wires to see if i forgot something - still nothing - checked for loose wires and such - nothing - all pto switches are off - so its not that - all my wires on the tractor look original and dont look like they have ever been messed with - the main thing i noticed was no wire going to the qiuck connector on the starter solenoid - did they wire something wrong ? - there is also another wire with a different style quick connector they had capped off - i woundered if it was supposed to be hooked up - after talking to smilinsam we came to a conclusion that maybe a wire that came hooked up to my starter solenoid pos. bolt should be connected to the quick connector - i disconnected it and put it on the quick connect - turned the key and the motor turned over - but more dissapointment was to come - the engine didnt fire - it now turns over but wont start - i still think something is wired wrong - i am going to make some calls to sew tommorrow and get more info - and discuss the problem - the biggest fault of the sew kit so far has definetly been the lack of any wiring diagrams as to what they changed and how it should all hook up to the original wiring - also some sort of basic instructions - they could easily put together a few pages with pictures from this site to help with known issues such as the pulley not lining up - this site sends alot of money their way and they should do this to keep the orders coming - if i wouldnt have had sams post as a guide and known of this already it would have been a stumbling block - i probably would have figured it out to move the shims but knowing this ahead of time was a big help - the install so far has not been too technically difficult just time consuming - the easier they make the kit for the user the more they will sell - the following are a few pics of the wiring for now -

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buckfollwr
Schaefer, take a look at your existing plug on tractor, it has four wires exiting. Your plug that comes on the new motor has three wires going in. The one that is missing (the white wire in the existing tractor plug) is the solenoid wire. Might be a problem!

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SmilinSam
Guys you all had better get ahold of SEW and get a wiring diagram from them. The engine pictured dies not appear to be wired correctly like mine was. There is only suppoesed to be 3 wires on the Honda side. The fourth was the low oil pressure sensor which is not used now. The white wire on the Honda side is what goes to the solenoid tab on mine.Looks to me like SEW wired it wrong on the one in the picture.. I'd sure check with them. Thats one of my bigger gripes with the kit, no instructions and no wiring diagram.

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schaefer72
hi - well i call sew and talked with the mechanic - they told me that yes my set up was wired wrong - i changed the wires they said to change - turned the key and still nothing - so more calls to sew will be the next step - i am alittle bothered by the wiring thing so far - its becoming a pain - i paid to have them wire it up so it all just plugs together and goes - i will let you know what happens - i am going to get them to fax a wiring diagram - see ya

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Floydster
If SEW (EVER) gets the kit right I just may order one for one of my 620's, you would think by now they would have the problems worked out, I just may opt. to rebuild the CCKB, if T.D.G.T.S.I.O.B. Floydster

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schaefer72
hi - well a quick update for today - i called and spoke to sew - talked to "jonus" ( spelling ?) - anyway - he is basically the mechanic guy in charge of setting up these honda kits and getting them ready to go - explained my problem and that i had called the day before - after talking about the wiring on my new honda he told me yes there was at least one wire hooked up wrong from the start and maybe more but because i was at work i was unable to go over it all wire by wire and in front of me and check the entire setup - we talked about the kit and some of the drawbacks of it - i stated the biggest flaw was the lack of any kind of instructions , pictures , or anything to help with the install at all - he stated he gets alot of calls and he is attempting to get tim and roy padgett jr. to complete an instruction sheet with pics and maybe even a video - he stated he would fax me a wiring diagram later in the day as per my request so i can get this figured out and running - as of 9pm it had not been faxed - he stated they are selling a ton of these kits and engines (no doubt due to this site) and the lack of instructions is becoming a problem - well i am going to go higher in the chain tommorrow - i am going to call and talk to tim or roy jr. and maybe roy if possible - to explain i paid alot of money for an easy install kit and thats what i expect - i will also pass along sugestions as to what the kit needs and problems i ran into as well as stear them in this direction to read these posts - and the fact that if they wish to continue to get good praise from the users of this site they need to make it right - we will see how it goes - as for now the motor has been installed for 3 days and still wont run - after i get wiring diagrams and more info i will post them for other members having the same problems - see ya

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cuda70
well guys after seeing all the problems you fellas are having with the hondas im glad i bought the 23hp vangaurd. the whole job took 4hrs from start to finish. so far ive got 30hrs on the engine and im very happy with it. but i must say the reason i picked the vangaurd over the honda was so i could use the double front pully on the front pto.also did not have to do anything with the oil cooler. oil temp stays nice an cool even using the loader for 6 straight hours.wish all you honda owners the best of luck, but im real happy with the vanguard.

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buckfollwr
I have had the exact same prob as you. I have been watching your posts anticipating a cure but have had no luck so I went out and got my elbows dirty. Now I a came back to share my cure. I looked at the great detailed photos you posted and yours looks identical to mine. The plug on the tractor with four terminals goes as follows: (Red) oil light,(White) solenoid,(Black w/ white stripe) accessory on ignition switch,and(Dark blue) ignition. The plug that comes on the Honda motor goes as follows: (Black) charge, (Red) Fuel solenoid relay, (white) starter solenoid. Take your plug from the motor and pull out the white wire (push knife or small screwdriver in end to release the terminal)and put it in the blank hole on the plug end. In another picture of the starter you have your positive cable from the battery and small white wire with round end crimped to it, attached to bolt on solenoid. Take the small white wire and cut off round end and crimp on female spade connector. Now slide that on the blank male spade on solenoid. When I first turned the motor over it didn't start. So I pulled one plug and turned over motor and had no spark UNTIL I let loose of the key and as the motor slowed to a stop it was firing. So I choked it just a tad hit the starter and it started then turned of choke completely to smoothen it out. That is what worked for me!

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schaefer72
hi quick update - talked to tim padgett - he faxed me a quick diagram of the wire hook ups - i will try it tommorrow or sat a.m. - see ya [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//attach/schaefer72/sew.JPG[/img]

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dieselman
Ive been reading about all the problems you guys are haveing doing an engine swap and was wondering why you hated the ownen engines that bad. We have 5 skid stears and 4 of them have the same engine as the 720's did and they have worked great. Hours are un knowen on all the looders due to no hour meater but one was only 4 years old when we bought it and it was built in '73 and was our only looder for severl years. the engine needs over halled but were probley gona part it out and buy a biger diesel looder so we can hall round bales.

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johnmonkey
It sounds like a video + a wiring diagram would be the most help for installing one of those engines. It looks pretty neat so far and I hope you get past the troubles real soon. JH

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SmilinSam
By the time SEW gets done adressing all our gripes and improves their "kit", all the new buyers should have a respectable kit available for purchase.;) I've put about 8 hours on mine now and its sooooo nice to just get on turn the key and start mowing. The transmission oil cooler I installed on mine does help remove some of the heat build up under the hood too.

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schaefer72
hi guys - sorry i haven't updated lately - i haven't had time to work on the tractor - it has been sitting for at least 2 weeks untouched - i just have too many other things that keep coming up - now that the weather is better i will be able to work on it soon and update with more pics - thanks

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schaefer72
hi - well its been several weeks and i finally got the time and the good weather to work on the tractor - the engine was in and it would start but shut off after several seconds - the first thing i did was bypass the wiring harness on the tractor to test the motor - i ran a wire from the battery to the red wire on the engine wiring harness - grounded the motor - and tapped the white wire to some power to turn it over - it ran great and kept going - so i knew its not the motor - next i pulled out the volt meter and the wiring diagrams - i tested and followed every wire on the tractor and rerouted acouple wires under the dash area - took several hours and it was a major pain in the neck - the fact the wiring diagram had the wrong color on a wire or two didnt help anything - anyway - fired it up and it ran great ! - stayed running - it was strange that my onan would run the way it was wired but not the honda - for those wanting to know the final wiring setup - here it is - this is from the tractor to motor - -black wire to black wire - 13 volts - to regulator to recharge batt. -blue to red - 13 volts - goes to fuel sol. and ignition -white to white - 13 volts - temp. power to turn over starter -red on tractor not used - oil sensor not used - - also had to take off the front pto pulley and turn it around - it stuck to far to the front - after turning it everything lined up - also had to cut the upright metal bar off the belt stop - it was hitting the rear pto shaft - the other thing i still have to deal with is the fact that the muffler exhausts right in front of an upright on the front of the tractor - ( see pic ) - the old one vented out the open area with the yellow circle - the new one vents straight out - red circle - i guess i will just cut a new hole and try to make it look as good as possible - i still have to do alot of little stuff like tucking in all the wires and making it all look good - as for the motor - i ran around for about a half hour - it ran great - lots of power - what a change - before my old onan would bog down and i couldnt run the tractor in 3rd gear or it would stall it out - now it just goes like crazy - the real test will be after i get my loader back on and move some dirt - overall i am very happy with my purchase - i dont think there would have been any difference in the briggs vs honda engines - just personal choice - the biggest problem for sure was as i said before a lack of any type of instruction sheet or wiring diagrams at all - it would be very simple for sew to make a instruction sheet with pictures and known install problems - such as what to do to line up pulleys and things - and it would be a huge help - but i think between my post and sams - there is all the pics and info anyone will need - final thoughts - it was alot of money but well worth it - just wished it went alittle smoother and hopefully sew will fix the known problems and they will keep selling alot of motors - see ya

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jkmustang1
Why couldn't you shorten the outlet on the muffler then add a bent pipe to it to relocate the outlet to the yellow area in the grill. From the photos it seems that could be done. That would allow you to not chop the grill. Use a wire hanger from the house or some wire like that to make the pattern. Nice tractor and enjoy the new found power

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